KIDCLUB LOG: Saturday 18 October 2003 Topic: "Animal Rights" PRESENT: Rean Steve Ryan Katelyn Phil Liela Brittany ************ START OF LOG ************ [20:08] ello [20:08] hi [20:08] hey Steve [20:09] hi Ryan, too. :-) [20:09] "Animals have rights too, after all." [20:09] hehe yes they do :) [20:10] But *do* they? Or do we merely *wish* that they did? What are the actual rights of animals and where have they been defined? [20:11] There are various laws protecting animals [20:11] In the UK, at least [20:11] Steve, not a good question to ask to an Animal Rights activist group or the ACLU :P [20:11] Everyone and everything has rights, how do we know that we as humans we placed on top? Why do we just asume we can kill whatever animal we want, just because we can? [20:12] To the contrary, those are exactly the kinds of people to whom such a question should be asked, Ryan. [20:12] After all, they might know the answers. ;-) [20:12] they're worse than politicians in my opinion. I have talked to people that are 'supposedly' animal rights activists. [20:13] Also in terms of laws, the UN are working on a Universal Declaration of Animal Rights [20:13] animals have every right as humans do to live, they just can't fight for it the way we can [20:14] Kate, what about 'survival of the fittest'? [20:14] they are Phil? [20:14] who says we're the fittest? [20:15] http://www.uncaged.co.uk/declarat.htm [20:15] now that kind of question also falls under defense purposes [20:15] Maybe cockroaches are fittest, as they have perhaps the best chance of all to survive a nuclear holocaust. [20:15] true [20:16] Steve, its true for many global catastrophes [20:16] k [20:16] In a meteor strike/nuclear holocaust/supervolcano or some other event, insects will survive and perhaps evolve to become the dominate species [20:16] I think because humans are probably the most evolved, we assume we have the most right to be here, and we are the fittest and all of that, when how do we know for sure? [20:17] dominant [20:17] Just as mammals replaced dinosaurs when they became extinct [20:17] *** J-Liela has joined #kidclub [20:17] Hi [20:17] hey [20:17] we can never know such for sure. The Bible tells us to take care of all the animals. [20:17] *** J-Liela sets mode: +o J-Liela [20:17] hi. Liela [20:17] , [20:17] *doesn't read the bible much* [20:18] I don't mean to say that Bible is right, but it has been supposedly guiding our Western culture. [20:18] key word "supposedly" [20:18] Have we paid attention to its instruction to care for all animals? [20:19] Well, humans evolved as omnivours, it's not wrong for a lion to eat another animal, why is it wrong for humans to? [20:19] i am really against Companies using there products on animals [20:19] You beat me to the point, Phil. Must we be vegetarians to believe in animal rights? [20:19] Phil, I think you and I had this discussion once :P [20:19] heh [20:19] Because lions can't eat anything else, humans know how to get the vitamins and things we need from other things [20:19] I have to go .. bye [20:19] bye Kate [20:20] bye [20:20] I am against animal testing for cosmetic purposes [20:20] Bye Kate [20:20] bye [20:20] *** Kate has quit IRC (Quit: "I do not agree with a word you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it" -Voltaire) [20:20] how about use of animals to find anti-human-cancer drugs? [20:20] But for medical purposes... is it wrong to kill 100 mices if it will save 1000 humans? [20:20] Secret, a womans Deoderant, is used on animals [20:21] nice question, Phil. [20:21] If we didn't use animals for medical testing, we probably wouldn't be where we are today with the number of humans we have [20:21] How is it used on animals, Liela? [20:21] *** Brittany has joined #kidclub [20:21] Well, i suppose it is alright if its nesisary,,, [20:21] Do we need this many people, Ryan? [20:21] ...* [20:22] hi, Brittany [20:22] hey Steve [20:22] On a lighter note, I saw some fly spray that said 'Not tested on animals' [20:22] not really Steve, but just giving my opinion [20:22] Now animal Creulty is a Whole different matter [20:22] phone, here, sorry. [20:23] What do you think about hunting? [20:23] Steve, its tested on animals to see if it is good [20:23] I'm not about to discuss this again... [20:23] Hunting..... hm... [20:24] Ryan, just put you pov in, I know you have a strong opp [20:24] *oppinion on this [20:24] Well, hunting for game, just for the antlers of a buck, now that isnt nesisary [20:25] The antlers are a nice addition to the meat [20:26] Now, hunting for food, perhaps that is OK if the animal is killed humanly [20:26] You dont really NEED the antlers for anything, they are just for putting on your wall [20:26] But here in britain, some people go fox hunting [20:26] 'humanly' ? [20:26] yes, hunting for food is ok [20:26] They send dogs to kill young foxes, and they're torn apart, and sometimes take hours to die [20:26] I feel that is wrong [20:26] awwww... foxes!!! [20:26] yes, me too [20:27] thats mean, and who would eat fox anyway? [20:27] i think im going to become a Vegitarion [20:27] Meat for me [20:27] They don't eat them [20:27] Meat for me too :P [20:28] They don't even go too look at them [20:28] no veggies, just meat [20:28] They just let dogs chase them [20:28] They use the fur for, "Style Reasons" [20:29] I eat meat and veggies.. it just depends on what it is [20:29] ya, no cow tounge for me [20:29] I prefer meat over veggies [20:29] never had cow tounge [20:29] venisin (sp?) is good [20:30] i like both meat and veggies [20:30] I am never eating any kind of tounge, thats just nasty [20:30] i know... [20:31] Rocky Mountain Oysters aren't something I'd eat [20:31] :S ewww [20:31] I don't like any kind seafood :P [20:31] +of [20:31] Britt, that's not seafood [20:31] me too. (Exept for shrimp. mmmmmmm) [20:32] btw, can I ask you a question [20:32] it isn't? [20:32] Do you think it would be wrong to eat, say, dog? [20:32] no it isn't Britt [20:32] (and lobster and crab.... :S) [20:32] Phil, that's just sick [20:32] :O [20:32] In Mexico they eat dog [20:32] Ryan, why is it? [20:32] omg.. to eat dog?! that is very wrong to me [20:32] It is for most people [20:32] Maybe because I'm a dog person [20:32] nooo!!!! Zuez is NEVER going to Mexico! [20:33] But I don't understand why its acceptable to eat one animal but not another? [20:33] lol [20:33] Did you know that pigs are much more intelligent than dogs [20:33] neither do I, but that's just how culture works [20:33] Becaus epeople Love Dogs!!! just not in that way.. [20:33] people* [20:34] Just thought I'd bring it up [20:34] because, some animals were meant to be eaten, and others weren't [20:34] Why are they meant to be eaten? Who says? [20:35] I dunno, its just the way it is, I mean would you feel right eating cat, or dog, or what about rat? [20:36] well, i think it is very sad that people ride bulls. [20:36] rat is too small...not enough meat [20:36] :O Ryan! [20:36] Its true [20:36] Rats are cute... [20:36] Rats are discusting :P [20:36] Depending on where I was, I may eat cat or dog [20:36] I've eaten Kangaroo and crocodile before [20:36] And ostrich [20:37] What about a gerbal? a hampster? Who would feel right eating such a inoccent little creature? [20:37] What makes them anymore innocent than a cow? [20:37] Cow's are lovely creatures [20:38] yes they are, but why do you think animals were put here? to stand and look cute? [20:38] re [20:38] nope [20:39] Britanny, no, but your disproving your own argument that 'some animals were meant to be eaten, and others weren't' [20:39] The animals that are not meant to be eaten... what is their purpose? [20:39] Now, what about eggs? [20:39] Eggs are baby chickens [20:39] Not usually :P [20:39] or baby alligators [20:40] right, Phil. Most chicken eggs were never fertilized. [20:40] Incidentally, rabbit is quite nice [20:40] Must go. Have a continued great discussion! :-) [20:40] Those ones make good omlette [20:40] +s [20:40] our pet "Ester Bonnie" is very loving. [20:41] I really don't know their purpose :/ :P [20:41] bye Steve [20:41] Bye Steve [20:41] ~~~ :-) [20:41] *** a-steve has left #kidclub [20:41] Rabbit??????? [20:42] Yes, its very nice [20:42] Rabbits are also a menace [20:42] never had rabbit [20:42] Especially in australia, they caused massive ecological damage ********** END OF LOG **********